Dan Wheeler's 69 4R70W/Atlas Build Thread

[Lebe]

I'm running 4R70W with 4.88 and 37s, 4.5" SL & 3" BL and love my Atlas 4. Don't know how you figured crawl ratio but mine figures to about 140:1 and I use ultra low all the time in the rocks we have here. Can't think of a downside as you still have the other higher ranges too. Been breaking hubs and stub shafts lately come to think of it.

Can you really go too slow?

 

[DanWheeler]

I'm running 4R70W with 4.88 and 37s, 4.5" SL & 3" BL and love my Atlas 4. Don't know how you figured crawl ratio but mine figures to about 140:1 and I use ultra low all the time in the rocks we have here. Can't think of a downside as you still have the other higher ranges too. Been breaking hubs and stub shafts lately come to think of it.

Can you really go too slow?

sounds pretty sweet - got any pics? how is your rear driveshaft angle? Do you know how much longer the 4 speed is compared to the 2 speed? I dont think i'd go 4 speed but I'm just curious.

 

[DanWheeler]

SHIFTER PERFECTION ACHIEVED!

I had to make my own shift lever because I wasn't able to drill through the stock lever to lower the attachment point. That lever is made of some kind of Ford super metal.

I'm reasonably sure that 7A256AA is Ford code for "Seriously, don't even try to drill through this lever... this is really hard metal."

and it only took 2 hours to file out that double-D shape by hand!

 

[DanWheeler]

I did finally get ahold of Kincade Bauer and will be buying my Atlas from him since his prices are good and he's very helpful.

I have one last decision to make. I need to decide if I can afford an extra 2" to get the standard tailhousing with a speedometer option. I was planning on getting the short tailhousing with no speedo and just getting a GPS speedometer but maybe my driveline angles aren't won't be too bad.

Whatt y'all think? Can I fit another 2" under there? The 4R70W is flush with the back of the block in these photos:

thanks!
dan

 

[DanWheeler]

BTW - next upgrade will probably be Dana 60/70 axles or something high pinion so I have that to take into consideration but probably not for another year or so.

 

[Tito]

I would get the short tailshaft housing and just use GPS when you care how fast you are going.

 

[DanWheeler]

more goodies showed up today!

 

[rtreads]

Is that yoke guard on the rear pinion upside down???

 

[Broncobowsher]

Is that yoke guard on the rear pinion upside down???

I don't think it is a yoke gaurd. Looks like a pinion snubber from a car application.

 

[MD]

Keep in mind that you will need an extra 1" spacer on the front of the Atlas to account for the output shaft protruding from the 4R70W.

I would seriously consider using the shorter output on the Atlas.

If your trans has an OSS (Output shaft sensor) on the right side, I think it can be used with an adjustable aftermarket electronic speedo. Obviously it won't show the correct speed in low range, but who really cares?

Michael

 

[DanWheeler]

Keep in mind that you will need an extra 1" spacer on the front of the Atlas to account for the output shaft protruding from the 4R70W.

I would seriously consider using the shorter output on the Atlas.

If your trans has an OSS (Output shaft sensor) on the right side, I think it can be used with an adjustable aftermarket electronic speedo. Obviously it won't show the correct speed in low range, but who really cares?

Michael

I believe it has some kind of speed sensor. When I was talking to the guy at Baummann controls he initially thought I would need a VSS sensor but then realized it was not necessary with the 4R70W. So I know there's a speed sensor in there somewhere but not sure where it is or how to identify it.

 

[sprdv1]

Nice work Dan, she's looking good

 

[Broncobowsher]

I believe it has some kind of speed sensor. When I was talking to the guy at Baummann controls he initially thought I would need a VSS sensor but then realized it was not necessary with the 4R70W. So I know there's a speed sensor in there somewhere but not sure where it is or how to identify it.

I wired a Ford cruise control into the OSS as I don't have a VSS. Signal is about triple then VSS signal. So the cruise starts working at 10 MPH instead of 30. But the top end flakes out around 70 MPH. setting cruise in low range can be tried, but the gearing is so low that it over reacts and shuts itself down.

 

[DanWheeler]

I wired a Ford cruise control into the OSS as I don't have a VSS. Signal is about triple then VSS signal. So the cruise starts working at 10 MPH instead of 30. But the top end flakes out around 70 MPH. setting cruise in low range can be tried, but the gearing is so low that it over reacts and shuts itself down.

did you use the baumann controller? Does it plug into the OSS? If so, did you have to splice into the wires?

 

[Broncobowsher]

did you use the baumann controller? Does it plug into the OSS? If so, did you have to splice into the wires?

I have the Baumann controller, great thing. I have just done a few things beyond what it was originally built for.

I spliced into the OSS wire and use it as a surigate VSS signal. feed it into the cruise control as mentioned above.

I have also spliced a wire into the TCC (Torque convertor clutch) and run that through a momentary swithc to ground. Gives me the opertunity to force the convertor to lock up at nearly any speed I want. Great for long slow hill climbs that are normally just working the convertor hard.

 

[DanWheeler]

I have also spliced a wire into the TCC (Torque convertor clutch) and run that through a momentary swithc to ground. Gives me the opertunity to force the convertor to lock up at nearly any speed I want. Great for long slow hill climbs that are normally just working the convertor hard.

thats awesome... could you safely down shift while the torque converter is locked? I have a bit of a guilty pleasure I will miss when going to an automatic - I like to pop the clutch when down shifting to make the rear tires chirp. The sudden rumble from the glass packs and the tires screeching at the same time is music to my ears.

so... i'm thinking I should be able to use one of these Nordskogg digital speedometers spliced into a wire on my OSS.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NRD%2DM9222%2DAS&N=700+4294925228+4294815743+4294895640+115&autoview=sku

That should work right? it has a calibration setting. Obviously it will be incorrect in low range but that doesn't matter.

 

[MD]

so... i'm thinking I should be able to use one of these Nordskogg digital speedometers spliced into a wire on my OSS.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NRD%2DM9222%2DAS&N=700+4294925228+4294815743+4294895640+115&autoview=sku

That should work right? it has a calibration setting. Obviously it will be incorrect in low range but that doesn't matter.

The meter claims to work with anything from 2K to 32K pulses per mile, so I think that is within the range of the 4R70W OSS. The OSS is just measuring the output shaft speed, at 8 pulses per revolution. So if you are runnng down the highway at 60mph and 2200rpm in 4th gear overdrive (.7 gearing), you should be getting approx. 25K pulses per second (within the range of the gauge).

Michael

 

[Broncobowsher]

OSS may be faster then that. If I remember right it is parking pawls that act as the tone ring. I think there are more then 8 teeth on the park pawl ring. But it is on the output shaft.

60 MPH is 1 mile in 1 minute.
60 MPH driveshaft speed (without OD) ~3000 RPM depending on gearing.
So 1 mile is 3000 revolutions (all happening in 1 minute at 60 MPH)
So single pule would be 3k, 10 pulses is 30k per mile. If I only had a spare set of tranny guts to count the teeth and see how close it will be.

 

[DanWheeler]

thanks for the help figuring out the OSS stuff, guys.

here's something I found on becontrols.com

Question: I replaced my 02 mustang gt 4R70W to an 04 mustang gt 4R70W and installed a transgo shift kit. I used my stock wiring harness and sensors. The car stays in OD when taking off and the speedometer goes to 150 mph at about 15-20 mph! When slowing down it goes back down about 15 mph. I rechecked all the connections and pins and tried switching the sensors from the other tranny with no luck. Did ford change the speed sensor wiring on the 04 4r70w? should I try to switch the wires? The car will shift manualy but torque lockup is sperratic! I also tried to reset the computer twice with no prevail. Any input would help!

Answer: In 2004 Ford made a mid year change to the ring gear. The old style ring gear has six holes machined in it that the Output Shaft Speed sensor (OSS) gets its signal from. The new style has 24 raised lugs that the OSS gets its signal from. The new style gives 4 times as high of a frequency per revolution of the output shaft. This is almost certainly your problem. We do sell a divider box that will divide this signal by four to give the proper frequency signal to your computer. If you want to be sure that this is your problem, remove the OSS and inspect to see if the ring gear inside has raised lugs. If the raised lugs are present then it definitely is the 24 pulse per revolution style transmission.

i'm still digging around for info.

 

[DanWheeler]

here's a pic that shows the changes in 04

You can see the gears are extended to replace the 6 holes