Dan Wheeler's 69 4R70W/Atlas Build Thread

[DanWheeler]

Quick question - would it be a bad idea to re-use the used torque converter from the Explorer? Is that the kind of thing you just bite the bullet and replace while you have the transmission out?

 

[Socal Tom]

I was thinking about getting that adjustable selector arm but I'm not sure about it's design for an offroad rig. Looks like one rog or big stick could rip that arm off of there. How does a shifter cable attach to the arm with that long slot?

the other thing I noticed (and I'm sure it's not a problem since it's sold specifically for the 4R70W) is that the stock selector arm has a bend in it which moves the attachment point away from that little block box. I'm wondering how close the Lokar arm is to the black box

On mine the shft arm points straight up. If a stick or a rock gets up there is has to get by a lot of other stuff first. Seems low risk to me.
Tom

 

[DanWheeler]

On mine the shft arm points straight up. If a stick or a rock gets up there is has to get by a lot of other stuff first. Seems low risk to me.
Tom

do you have any pictures of your Lokar shift arm? I'd really like to see how the cable attaches. Was it easy to install?

 

[COBlu77]

Quick question - would it be a bad idea to re-use the used torque converter from the Explorer? Is that the kind of thing you just bite the bullet and replace while you have the transmission out?

Without knowing the condition of your current torque converter, that's hard to say. If it's in good shape then the Explorer converter works well. It's a little higher stall than a stock C4 and it takes a little more rpm to get over obstacles in the trail than a C4, but overall I prefer it to the stock C4 stall.

You might want to replace the solenoids and do Bauman's valve body kit. Talk to Bauman when you buy your controller and they will tell you what you might want to replace or upgrade.

 

[Socal Tom]

do you have any pictures of your Lokar shift arm? I'd really like to see how the cable attaches. Was it easy to install?

Mine doesn't use the cable, it uses the shift rod. I didn't install it, so I can't speak for the difficulty. They basically fabed an arm that stuck straight up, then hooked it up like the c4.
Tom

I'll try to get some pics.

 

[lars]

I installed an external lubrication system. It works great don't you think?

That looks like a quote worthy of a signature line if I ever saw one!

Subscribed...

 

[Broncobowsher]

Quick question - would it be a bad idea to re-use the used torque converter from the Explorer? Is that the kind of thing you just bite the bullet and replace while you have the transmission out?

I reuse them. Unless there is some reason to suspect a problem the convertor will last the life of the transmission and then some. I like the way the stock convertor work.

 

[DanWheeler]

Adding Broncobowsher's instructions for using an explorer starter to my thread:

Place the big wire on the starter just like normal.
Run another wire 10 or 12 gauge from the small terminal on the start up to the old starter solenoid.
At the existing starter solenoid, move the heavy gauge wire to the battery side of the solenoid, basicly direct battery feed to the starter.
Take the smaller wire you just ran from the starter and place that on the solenoid where the heavy gauge wire was.

I realize that places 2 solenoids in the starter path, but there are several reasons for doing it this way. In order to maintain the voltage boost during cranking you need the original solenoid with the "I" terminal to give the boost. The extra wire up to the old post on the original solenoid is to keep the starter from acting as a generator and back feeding the pull in solenoid holding it in too long.

 

[Socal Tom]

do you have any pictures of your Lokar shift arm? I'd really like to see how the cable attaches. Was it easy to install?

I put a couple of pics in my gallery. Its in the park position.
Tom

 

[sprdv1]

Great Info Dan, looking good

 

[DanWheeler]

From the 700R4inAFord.com website FAQ it lists the following notes for a 4R70W with an Atlas transfer case.

(13) The AOD-E/4R70W has a different output shaft than the AOD in reference to the oiling holes. Since the AOD-E does not have a governor, the oil supply line must be plugged. All kits for the AOD can be used on the AOD-E/4R70W, but you will have to obtain a few parts from Ford. The parts will cost approximately $9.00. They are:

Ford # 391-231S Plug Pin
Ford # F2VY7B176-A Sleeve to keep the pin in the shaft
Ford # RC-388104-S2 Governor snap ring to hold the sleeve on

Can anyone speak to this? Do I need to get these parts? Where do they go?

thanks,
dan

 

[COBlu77]

From the 700R4inAFord.com website FAQ it lists the following notes for a 4R70W with an Atlas transfer case.

(13) The AOD-E/4R70W has a different output shaft than the AOD in reference to the oiling holes. Since the AOD-E does not have a governor, the oil supply line must be plugged. All kits for the AOD can be used on the AOD-E/4R70W, but you will have to obtain a few parts from Ford. The parts will cost approximately $9.00. They are:

Ford # 391-231S Plug Pin
Ford # F2VY7B176-A Sleeve to keep the pin in the shaft
Ford # RC-388104-S2 Governor snap ring to hold the sleeve on

Can anyone speak to this? Do I need to get these parts? Where do they go?

thanks,
dan

If my memory serves me correctly, you won't need that stuff as long as you have a 4R70W from a 4WD/AWD. I didn't need it for the NP205, which has the same 6 bolt pattern as a standard Atlas. It's for those that used the AA adapter to mate a 4R70W (AODE) to a D20. AA's tailshaft and adapter housing are for an AOD and needed those mods for a 4R70W. The only other reason you'd need it is if you are converting a 2wd 4R70W using the AA adapter.

 

[Broncobowsher]

From the 700R4inAFord.com website FAQ it lists the following notes for a 4R70W with an Atlas transfer case.

(13) The AOD-E/4R70W has a different output shaft than the AOD in reference to the oiling holes. Since the AOD-E does not have a governor, the oil supply line must be plugged. All kits for the AOD can be used on the AOD-E/4R70W, but you will have to obtain a few parts from Ford. The parts will cost approximately $9.00. They are:

Ford # 391-231S Plug Pin
Ford # F2VY7B176-A Sleeve to keep the pin in the shaft
Ford # RC-388104-S2 Governor snap ring to hold the sleeve on

Can anyone speak to this? Do I need to get these parts? Where do they go?

thanks,
dan

You are mixing AA adaptor instructions with factory 4WD adaptors. Don't do that.

Those parts listed are only needed of you are using and AOD output shaft in a computer controlled AODE/4R70W. They are used to plug the governor holes in the output shaft. the holes need to be plugged as there is no governor when the shifts are computer controlled. These are factory parts there were a patch when they started going computer controlled. It was easier to plug the holes and use one part then it was to make a whole new output shaft (which the later did).

Factory 4WD doesn't have the holes for the governor and thus they don't need plugging.

 

[DanWheeler]

cool, check that one off the to-do list. Thanks for the confirmation, guys.

 

[bighorn]

I was thinking about getting that adjustable selector arm but I'm not sure about it's design for an offroad rig. Looks like one rog or big stick could rip that arm off of there. How does a shifter cable attach to the arm with that long slot?

the other thing I noticed (and I'm sure it's not a problem since it's sold specifically for the 4R70W) is that the stock selector arm has a bend in it which moves the attachment point away from that little block box. I'm wondering how close the Lokar arm is to the black box

I'm not there yet, so I don't have a good answer. By looking at it, you attached the cable like you have done to the stock arm, but placing (tightning) along the slot changes the swing of the arm, matching your cable throw. I've seen this done numerous times with a rod, no problems.

 

[DanWheeler]

It's time to purchase the Atlas. I'll be purchasing from PolyPerformance unless someone can recommend a retailer with a better price.

I called today and they are checking with Advance Adapters to see if the heavy duty front output shaft is standard with a 5:1 case and whether or not you are charged the $100 extra for the HD output if you pay the extra for the 5:1 ratio.

I have also asked them to check on the flat vs standard rotation. I dont think I'll be able to go flat at this time because of my low pinion Dana 44 in the front but I plan on upgrading to a Dana 60 at some point so I may want to clock it flat and notch the frame then.

Does anyone know what prevents an Atlas ordered with standard clocking from being clocked flat? I thought the spacer rings would allow you to clock at any degree? I'd like to get the 3/4" multi-clock spacer but I need to measure my output shaft tonight and see how much it sticks out.

thanks,
dan

BTW - for anyone following this thread, please note that I am adding information as I go to the first post rather than throughout the thread.

 

[DanWheeler]

I need to decide on a ratio for the Atlas.

3.8, 4.3:1, 5:1 or 6:1

Anyone have any recommendations? My gut feeling is to go with the 6:1. I called and it DOES come standard with the 32 spline front output but the price comes out the same as if you went with 4.3:1 and added 32 spline front output for $100.

Final crawl with a 6:1 (not including torque converter) would be about 80:1

4R70W 2.84 1st X Atlas 6 X Rear-end 4.88 = 83

Is 6:1 overkill? I could save $166 by going with the 3.8 w/ 32 spline front output compared to the 6:1. Seems like one of those times when you should spend the extra 10% and step it up to the next level but I've never wheeled an automatic transmission so I dont know what is reasonable. My current crawl ratio is 80:1 with the NP435.

thanks,
dan

 

[Tito]

With the auto there is an inherent crawl due to the converter, I wouldnt go deeper than 4.3. People usually talk about the converter doubling the crawl ratio. Have you talked to Randy over at Adventurous 4x4 301-791-6869? He had a real good price on the Atlas cases last I checked, they all get drop shipped anyways.

 

[lars]

Take this anecdote for how much you paid for it, but I have a 4.3 Atlas behind an NV4500, driving 35" tires through 4.56 axle gears. Thus a crawl ratio of 110:1. With that gearing I'm perfectly comfortable on the Rubicon, but if the transmission is in 5th, I'm still up around where I was with an NP435 and the stock Dana 20. The rule of thumb about automatics as I understand it is that the torque convertor is good for around a 2:1 reduction. Having driven a friends Bronco that's similar to mine except for a 700R4, I'd have to say that it seems about right. But then it depends on how you will use your Bronco. Mine is a daily driver and gets driven to all trails, no matter how far, and I like to go fast as well as slow (I know, asking more of a Bronco than is probably reasonable, but that's another story...). But I find that it's nice to be able to leave it in low, and still have enough high end to go from obstacle to obstacle without having to shift the transfer case. Or you could just buy a 4 speed Atlas

 

[COBlu77]

With the auto there is an inherent crawl due to the converter, I wouldnt go deeper than 4.3. People usually talk about the converter doubling the crawl ratio. Have you talked to Randy over at Adventurous 4x4 301-791-6869? He had a real good price on the Atlas cases last I checked, they all get drop shipped anyways.

Ditto, except I'd go with the 3.8:1. You better have good brakes with any higher, because you won't be able to hold it back unless you shift to neutral. AA recommended the 3.8 to me for a 4R70W for that reason. Now that I've run several trails with my 2.0 NP205, I'd say you'd have too big of a gap in gearing except for the most extreme sections of a trail. 2.0 gets the job done well on 90% of what I would consider moderate to difficult trails. With 5:1 or 6:1, you'd only be able to use 4L in the toughest of situations. You'd be way too low for everything else and too high in 4H.

It's why I haven't taken the plunge on the Atlas. I'd miss the 2.0 low range for 90% of the trail. I'd really like the 3 speed mini STAK and would probably pull the trigger except for the lack of mechanical speedo option. The Stak mini 3sp is approximately the same dimensions as the Atlas II for not too much more $$. Because my meager 2.0 low range gets me through everything I'm willing to do here in CO, it's hard to justify spending $2500 and re-engineering my dash for the occasional situation where I'd be more comforatable descending a hill in a lower gear.