loud rockers

[C Saporito]

A hydraulic roller cam with roller rockers should not be noisy.
If it was a mechanical solid lifter cam you would here taping due to the clearance settings.

I'd get a cheap stethoscope and listen with the valve covers off, you should be able to confirm or eliminate things like spring bottoming or pushrod binding.

 

[NicksTrix]

the cast alum valve covers transmit the sounds, for what ever reason a stamped cover does not.

 

[Kgbronco]

Well I think I found the problem. I had adjusted one bank of valves so much I decided to start from scratch and redo them starting at zero. One just didn't feel right so after adjusting them all I started It without the valve cover. Long story short is I have at least one bad lifter. I will be on phone to comp tomorrow. Thanks for all the input.

 

[tripog]

Well I think I found the problem. I had adjusted one bank of valves so much I decided to start from scratch and redo them starting at zero. One just didn't feel right so after adjusting them all I started It without the valve cover. Long story short is I have at least one bad lifter. I will be on phone to comp tomorrow. Thanks for all the input.

Did you figure out what the cause was? I am experiencing the same issue and am at a total loss. I have a pretty similar setup except for still having the stock cam and lifters.

 

[tripog]

Did you figure out what the cause was? I am experiencing the same issue and am at a total loss. I have a pretty similar setup except for still having the stock cam and lifters.

well I pulled my lifters, there are a couple that are questionable but nothing terrible, most seem pumped up and solid.

 

[tripog]

well I pulled my lifters, there are a couple that are questionable but nothing terrible, most seem pumped up and solid.

I haven't put it back together yet but, I think I found a more likely cause for my sound. I know a few of my lifters are iffy and I have replacements coming in but I noticed some contact marks on my pushrods and I think the guide plates were not actually allowing the pushrod to stay fully seated in the rocker arm.

 

[tripog]

for anyone following along, I replaced my lifters with Ford Performance M-6500-R302H lifters which are supposed to be the same height as the originals. They are pretty close, I imagine they are pretty close to dead-on if your lifters aren't too worn. the biggest thing I noticed is that although the lifter's overall height is the sameish, the two fingers that come down to secure the roller are not rounded off like the originals, so I could not install them in all four corners lifter bores without removing the heads.

 

[Madgyver]

Hydraulic?
check your preload. hard to tell with no oil pressure. I'll usually go with half a turn after contact on pushrod when adjusting lash. back off all the rockers a quarter turn each and see if the noise changes.

 

[tripog]

Hydraulic?
check your preload. hard to tell with no oil pressure. I'll usually go with half a turn after contact on pushrod when adjusting lash. back off all the rockers a quarter turn each and see if the noise changes.

I have to set them today, I took it all apart to replace the lifters. The past few times I have settled on a half a turn after finding zero lash. I have tried 1/4 all the way up to a full turn, I haven't adjusted them while running but I have a feeling my issue was solved by massaging the guide plates, it looked like there was a small gap at the bottom in between the pushrod and guide plate near the rocker stud but looking at a mark on the pushrods I don't think there was. So I cut the guide plates a little to allow for more clearance.

I only have a little bit of time to work on it each day but I figure ill probably get to run it without the valve covers this evening or tomorrow evening.

 

[Madgyver]

I know that on some heads the guide plates needs some tweaking. Make sure you have hardened pushrods installed with the guide plates.

 

[tripog]

I know that on some heads the guide plates needs some tweaking. Make sure you have hardened pushrods installed with the guide plates.

yeah, they are hardened, I went with the 5/16 comp magnums with .80 wall. I got the rockers adjusted and lower intake manifold back on and torqued. I will probably run it tomorrow with the valve covers off just to make sure everything is okay before buttoning it up. I'm pretty confident the sound is now fixed, so I may just button it all back together before running it.

 

[tripog]

yeah, they are hardened, I went with the 5/16 comp magnums with .80 wall. I got the rockers adjusted and lower intake manifold back on and torqued. I will probably run it tomorrow with the valve covers off just to make sure everything is okay before buttoning it up. I'm pretty confident the sound is now fixed, so I may just button it all back together before running it.

well, I was wrong, it's still loud as can be. I'm beginning to think a chipmunk dropped some food in my engine somewhere, I don't know what else it could be.

 

[DirtDonk]

What's the history of the engine? You said stock cam and lifters, but it sounds like you have aftermarket heads?
What year and model engine, and how many miles?
What do the old lifters look like on their bases? You said some were questionable, but in what way?
What heads are you running?

And maybe most importantly, when did the noise start? Did it happen right after swapping heads, or has it done this all along since you've had the Bronco?

Paul

 

[tripog]

What's the history of the engine? You said stock cam and lifters, but it sounds like you have aftermarket heads?
What year and model engine, and how many miles?
What do the old lifters look like on their bases? You said some were questionable, but in what way?
What heads are you running?

And maybe most importantly, when did the noise start? Did it happen right after swapping heads, or has it done this all along since you've had the Bronco?

Paul

its a 2000 ford 5.0 out of a ford explorer, the valve train was tired from the engine having around 140k on them. I picked up some cheap flotek 1.94 intake 1.55 exhaust aluminum heads thinking they would be comparable to what I pulled off.

the roller of the lifters looked fine on all, three lifters seemed like they would bleed down fairly easily, I was able to compress them a little just by using my finger, the rest stayed solid and I couldn't compress them by hand even using a pushrod in the cup.

the noise started with the new heads, before the valvetrain was a little noisy but not too bad.

today I pulled out the spark plugs and snuck a camera inside the cylinders and was unable to see anything out of the ordinary, not nuts dropped in, no contact marks, nothing.

To me, it sounds like something is hitting, it is loud, way louder than it should be. I can not find signs of anything hitting though.

 

[DirtDonk]

Good that you checked inside too. But did you verify pushrod length? Sounds like you bought new pushrods, since you mentioned that they are hardened, but if you did not verify the proper geometry this might be at least part of the issue.
I've never been a fan of the assumption that any aftermarket head swap can just automatically use the same length pushrods. Maybe you did check though.
But a too-short (or maybe even too-long?) pushrod could easily do this.

Paul

 

[tripog]

Good that you checked inside too. But did you verify pushrod length? Sounds like you bought new pushrods, since you mentioned that they are hardened, but if you did not verify the proper geometry this might be at least part of the issue.
I've never been a fan of the assumption that any aftermarket head swap can just automatically use the same length pushrods. Maybe you did check though.
But a too-short (or maybe even too-long?) pushrod could easily do this.

Paul

yeah I measured, stock length was damn near dead-on, I forget what the length I used was but it was just a hair longer than stock. how loud would the thermactor plugs be if they weren't sealing completely?

the sound isn't there turning it over by hand, or with the starter fuel injectors disabled.

It starts up instantly and seems to run strong, I checked the mode 06 data and it doesn't show any misfires. I have installed new heads and valvetrain on a Chevy before and it was good from the gitgo but never on a Ford or changing from cast iron to aluminum, is there a break in period for it to quiet down with or anything? I wouldn't think so but I'm out of ideas here.

 

[tripog]

well, I just wrapped up my inspection, and it's now quiet. Well it's still a little louder than I would like but the worrisome loud racket I heard before is not happening and I just have a small exhaust leak to fix. Might take the valve covers back of and maybe go a little tighter than the half-turn I went on the poly locks.

no idea what caused the sound or why it stopped. hopefully it doesn't grenade on me.

I went for a short drive and it drove great, a lot more power and very smooth but I don't think I'm out of the woods yet. At around 2k rpm my oil pressure gauge was bouncing around a little, that's something that never happened on the stock oil pump or on the smelling high volume pump that's currently installed

 

[Timmy390]

Sounds like an oil pressure issue to me. Not enough pressure to keep the lifters pumped. I would drop the pan and inspect the screen. Restricted flow.....

I always run a mechanical oil pressure gauge to know what my pressure really is.

Tim

 

[tripog]

Sounds like an oil pressure issue to me. Not enough pressure to keep the lifters pumped. I would drop the pan and inspect the screen. Restricted flow.....

I always run a mechanical oil pressure gauge to know what my pressure really is.

Tim

It looked like something was going on with the oil pressure at one point but the oil pump probably has less than 10k miles on it and I'm under the impression functioning hydraulic lifters shouldn't really bleed down. I do want to get an mechanical oil gauge on it but I'm not sure I'm ready to pull the pan just yet. When I ran it with the valve covers off and it was still making that God awful noise while it was shooting oil out pretty far on most all rockers.

Sense it's easier to pull the valve covers again, I'm going to do that next to make sure a poly lock or something didn't back off and if everything still looks good up top I'll pull the oil pan next.

While I'm not convinced my oil pump is failing I didn't replace the pickup tube, I inspected it pretty thoroughly and didn't see any cause for concern.

 

[bflippinw]

I also have the flotek heads on a 93 roller block stock cobra cam but haven’t ran it yet. Did you check piston to valve clearance? The bigger valves can get close to the pistons. Had to change to bigger valve relief pistons on mine, of course I didn’t know this until I had the whole thing assembled with stock pistons and happened to mention the scenario to my machine shop. Took it apart and clayed the pistons- too close.