Newbie -> Just Got My -NEW TO ME- Bronco Need help, advice, parts

[mytmouse75]

Should be the smaller gauge Red w/blue wire. You can double check yours though, by inspecting the smaller 90° push-on connector usually on the left side of the starter relay/solenoid.
The right side is usually a small Brown wire. That's for ignition duties, so not the one you want. The other one "should be" a Red w/blue wire. That's the one that you need to track back to the firewall or ignition switch.
Wire one side of your NSS to the ignition switch side of the wire, and the other to the starter relay side of the wire. Just like you were saying

I haven't gotten to trace it back, but I believe (see picture link) the wire on the left in picture is the one your referring to..

https://goo.gl/photos/7gR3i6hHX7KxdQkM9



Also here are the requested pictures of the glove box fuse block - hope these are better....

https://goo.gl/photos/uwyaZebtUwHdV5Qy7


Thanks again for all your help...

 

[DirtDonk]

Excellent pics on the fuse panel! Thanks a bunch. Now to get Steve83 over here to grab them for his database...

Hmm, you've got one of them thar strange upside-down model starter thingies.
So, yes that is the Red w/blue wire there on the left. That's the one that comes directly from the key, or through a neutral safety switch when an automatic trans is used.

Just for giggles though, can you pull each of them off and take a look around the area of their contact studs to see if you can find any letters molded in to the plastic case? You're looking for an "I" (for ignition) and an "S" for switch.
Make sure that the Red w/blue wire is on the S post and the Brown wire is on the I post.

Under "normal" conditions, it won't work at all if they're backwards. But I've seen stranger things, so it's worth a quick check.

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

Thanks will do. But to be clear if your saying the Red w/blue is going to/from the KEY/ignition switch (in my mind) shouldn't that be on the "I" post?

 

[DirtDonk]

Nope. Not if you want it to "START" that is.
In this case the "I" stands for ignition, as in "ignition coil" not the ignition switch.
Maybe it stands for something else entirely, such as "intermittent" or "interrupted" or something in Latin, or whatever. But the Brown wire stud has one function, and that's to supply the old fashioned ignition systems like ours with a full 12v during the time the starter is engaged.
During the start process, this one is now connected to the ignition.

Some of the old components were literally carried over from the older days when 6v was the norm, and not 12v that we know today. The coil, points, condenser mainly, were just continued from the old days with some updates. But still not expected to live long on a full 12v.
So the voltage to the ignition coil was reduced through (in the case of our Broncos) a resistor wire between the key and the coil. This way you didn't burn out or wear out the components like the coil and points and condenser too quickly. But it also led to harder starting because of a weaker spark. Especially when cold and the choke on the carburetor wasn't doing it's job.
The Brown "I" wire gives an extra jolt during START to help an engine start more easily.

A secondary benefit of this design was that when an ignition switch started going bad and didn't supply power to the coil during START, the Brown wire could compensate for the bad switch.

So no, the I is used for something else. You want the S for "START" or for "SWITCH" or for "shazzaaaammm!" or whatever.;D

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

You want the S for "START" or for "SWITCH" or for "shazzaaaammm!" or whatever.

Paul

AWESOME ! Thanks for the education. AND a GOOD LAUGH..... "shazzaaaammm!" ;D ;D

;D ;D

 

[mytmouse75]

Ok I got to look at that starter solenoid and there's no "I" or "S" printed/stamped on it. As I am tracing wires I see REALLY BAD splice butt connections all over, like coming off the alternator that looked like it was ready to catch fire, so I had to stop cut them out and fix/solder the connections..
I jumped to the rear of the truck to trace out the reverse lights. To take a break. I found starting at the tails lights :
yellow (left turn/stop)
Green (right turn/stop)
Brown (tail/ marker lights)
and a BLACK that MUST BE the reverse lights.
I traced the (original) harness along the frame and found in the wire loom going up the drivers side fire wall the Black going to (what looks like original ) a THREE wire plug that has two (what looks red w/ white or could be just red) wires that were left cut coming from that 3 wire plug left open/cut in the wire loom.
Could these be the NSS wires? I didn't get to look pass/beyond the firewall under the dash yet, as I got side tracked with repairing other bad splices and ran out of time.

 

[mytmouse75]

CORRECTION
It's two Brown wires that are cut and change to purple at the plug, along with the Black reverse wire that changes to black w red. I was almost positive that the Black is the reverse lights. I got bold and powered the Black from pulling the plug apart and IT IS the reverse lights.
I also found a yellow wire plug coming from the same harness out of the firewall (unplugged).
SEE PICTURES:
https://goo.gl/photos/5rbzreGRyvWfYf3C8

 

[mytmouse75]

Could the cut brown wires be the NSS wires/circiut...?
But that would mean that the NSS circuit would be normally open. Opposite of what we've been saying.. Searching for a closed circuit - wires looped....
This would mean that this is an Open circuit to crank. If this is correct the open circuit would crank in park or neutral in an auto Tran or in manual trans when clutch is depressed... Closed circuit (to not allow crank) when in gear in an auto trans or in manual trans... CORRECT? IF ---- these cut Brown wires are the NSS wires...

 

[DirtDonk]

No, if it was an open circuit it would never start until it was closed. It's only open at the switch itself. The wires themselves would always be a closed circuit.

The two light purple wires are likely for the Brake Warning lamp on the dash. On the engine side they run down to the H-block on the frame where the brake lines go from the master cylinder.

I forget what that Yellow wire is, but I've seen it before. Was that pic from under the dash or in the engine compartment? I know you said you didn't have time to mess under the dash, but that's where it looked to be.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Does that Yellow wire happen to have a white stripe?
If so, it's likely for the AUX fuel tank sending unit. Do you have dual tanks or a single?

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

Was that pic from under the dash or in the engine compartment? I know you said you didn't have time to mess under the dash, but that's where it looked to be.

Paul

No - that pic was at the drivers side firewall in the engine compartment going down.

Does that Yellow wire happen to have a white stripe?
If so, it's likely for the AUX fuel tank sending unit. Do you have dual tanks or a single?

I didn't see a white stripe...

No AUX fuel tank. Single 23 gal.


I guess I should be happy I found the reverse lights, and just wire in the NSS into the Red w/ black going to the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid...

Thanks,
-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

...I guess I should be happy I found the reverse lights, and just wire in the NSS into the Red w/ black going to the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid...

Correction just for accuracy. Red w/blue wire.

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

Right - That's what I meant - LOL ;D sorry


I got to figure out how to make the B&M shifter / bracket work with the throttle body kick down cable/bracket. I was able to "MOD" the throttle body bracket by grinding and notching it to fit along with the B&M bracket on the same lower rear servo cover bolt.
see pics --- ( ALSO You can see what I've been dealing with - with the HORRIBLE electrical connections - some before & after I soldered/repaired them pics)

https://goo.gl/photos/6Z3YVLNvgZcUWXCk6

-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

Whatcha talkin' about? That's primo stuff right there!%)
For some reason every EB owner back in the day decided that they were wiring experts and also for some reason, thought that their Broncos wiring needed "improving" any chance they got.
Can't tell you how many EB's got that treatment.

I wonder, but I bet the percentage of hacked and hewed spaghetti factory tailings passing for wiring in Broncos is at least 50%.
But good on you for fixing the old fixes. Hope it all works when you're done!;D

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

One more thing I see power steering fluid leaking down front of engine and linkage below. Only place could be coming from seems to be power steering reservoir. Looking closer at the reservoir I noticed that it's loose wiggles back and forth. And the reservoir is almost empty after I topped it off awhile back.
https://goo.gl/photos/ybZ2c3pLdrYS8WFQA
I see Rock Auto has rebuild kit for cheap , but they show two different ones , not sure which one I need. OR should I just invest in a complete remanufactured pump for around $50?

 

[Skiddy]

looks like the bolt on the back of the pump is loose.
if it is the seal leaking around the shaft, I would just replace the pump

 

[mytmouse75]

looks like the bolt on the back of the pump is loose.
if it is the seal leaking around the shaft, I would just replace the pump

These pumps are just the plastic reservoir housing held in place by an o-ring around the main body (no bolt in back). And yes thinking more about it, if it's more than just the reservoir housing o-ring leaking -like the shaft seal too , I think it will be better to swap out the whole pump. This way, that will cover all possible pumps leaks. Besides after core return, Rock Auto has A1 CARDONE Remanufactured Power Steering Pump [ 207252F ] for $37...

 

[mytmouse75]

Originally Posted by mytmouse75 View Post
...>Yes, it's a C4 trans. Not sure if original to truck. I think I may hold off (for now) on changing the trans fluid. It seems clean, bright red - like New !

Originally Posted by DirtDonk....
That's good news, but you're ok to change it anyway. As far as I know, all C4's took Type-F fluid no matter what they came out of and no matter what year.
The C6 used Type-F in early versions and Dexron in later years (like my '79 does).

Well now I'm second thinking my decision about changing the trans fluid. Besides the cork pan gasket showing signs of leaking and now that I've been messing around with the shifter linkage, the kick down shifter shaft is showing sign of leaking too - I suppose I'll have to drop the pan and valve body (to change the shaft o-rings) .

It seems the over all consensus says C4 should use Type F.
The question is though - not really knowing what's in there now/what the last owner did. How likely or What's the chances that IT IS type F in there now , so when I do this service I'll be safe to just add new type F to what's still in the rest of the trans/torque converter?? I heard mixing is NOT GOOD ....

Or should I just plan on flushing the trans with New Type F (via the old cooler line trick - out with the old in with new)?

That being said, does anyone know how much fluid for the C4 to expect to use both for a flush or just pan/filter change?

Thanks
-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

Sorry, those capacities charts are one thing I've never been able to memorize with any consistency. Someone here will know though.

As far as adding or flushing, you can do either/and/or any time. Unless it says otherwise on the bottle, most type-F fluids will intermix with no trouble. So if the PO loaded it up with Walmart dinosaur oil, and you want to put in a pint of Grand Wazoo Super Synthetic Super Slug type-F, it won't hurt anything.;D

Showing small signs of leaking around seals and you can avoid the replacement sometimes with additives designed to renew seals. But once a cork gasket is heading south, or the leaks are looking pretty pronounced, you might as well jump in with both feet and pull the pan and make the mess now so you can say you did and not have to do it again anytime soon.

Nothing wrong with a flush to clear up varnish, but it's not needed to just change fluids from one brand, or even type to another.
Even if it had Dexron/Mercon in it, you could still put some Type-F and not lose sleep at night. The friction modifiers/chemical additives are what varies. They're both still automatic trans fluid, they just have different friction properties based on what clutch material was used in that particular unit. Some rebuilders change the clutches to suit their personal tastes and then recommend a different fluid.
The trans might not know which way is up and complain about it in shifters anonymous therapy that night, but it won't hurt.

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

LOL. ;D
Thanks Paul, I love your comments besides your GREAT advise and knowledge.
I think I'm going to go the route of do it now while I'm working on it as a winter project and change seals, gasket, and flush it. I have found resources saying a dry C4 should be 9qts. I believe I'll be safe flushing a good 9 - 10qts through using the ol cooler line trick into a bucket as I add new through the dip stick tube.
Thanks again Sir