O.P.E.C. SUCKS!!!! Propane starting to smell GREAT!

[DownhillManiac99]

The problem with H2 is in the compressability, since it is a light gas you cant store as much in a tank, unless under extreme pressure. This has been one main delema for the future of Hydrogen as power plants. No one wants to re-fuel every 20 mi.

No were really off..

That and driving in a small H bomb... I believe there was a member on here that wants to enter the TTC with his propane 302.

 

[Jangel]

I've got all the parts ready for my propane swap, but it'll probably wait till next year. I spent $150 to get everything except the tanks and hoses. My main reason for switching was drivability off road. I hate anything electric so EFI was out, but with propane you get the same driveability with very few actual parts. I'm going to use forklift tanks and have a couple extras. Several people on Pirate 4x4 are running propane and they were full of information.

 

[HotWheels]

I really don't get it.

In Iraq gas cost is .04$ (not a typo) per gallon.

1700 of my fellow service members have been murdered or killed during this "War".

What do we get in return?

Petroleum reserves would add to national security too...

But I would give everything I own (even my bronco) to bring those mothers and fathers home alive.

 

[airman]

I've been a Bush advocate from the start, but he and his crew need to do something about this gas/diesel dilema.....Seriously.

Steroids in baseball.......who gives a rats a$$. Something HAS GOT to be done about these fuel prices.

BroncKelly

I was thinking that I would just leave my Bronco alone with Jose Canseco for a weekend and maybe get better mileage.

PS, I would love to watch drug enhanced sports. I also want to hear all of the trash talking at the line of scrimage, in the dugout, etc.

Jeff in AZ

 

[airman]

That and driving in a small H bomb...

I thought that the H idea was to develope H through electolosis on board. The holding fuel cell would be full of water and the bi-product would be oxygen. If it was having a cell of compressed H whats the holdup. That can be done already.

But the elephant in the room here is not expensive gas, or alternate fuels. It is...... make more money. If you had more money you would care less about the gallon price of gasoline. Or drive a Saturn right? It costs alot to have freedom.

Jeff in AZ

 

[Sac '68 sport]

I've been a Bush advocate from the start, but he and his crew need to do something about this gas/diesel dilema.....Seriously.

They are doing something about it. Their jacking up the prices and him and his buddies are stuffing there pockets full of your hard earned cash.
Don't forget where this dude's family makes it's dough.
Bush is an oil man, his daddy was an oil man, his granddaddy was an oil man, his buddies the Saudi's that have billions of dollars in our banks, and gave big bucks to the W campaign are oil men. (where were those 911 scumbags from again? Saudi's. Right.)
The crokedness this guy possesses and puts right in front of our eys is so unbeliveable most people think it can't be true.


Off the rant, my dad had LPG in his old chevy pick up and it ran ok. It ran better on gas but was fine on the propane. We lived out in the country and had a huge propane tank that we used in the house so he would just fill the tank in his truck from that.

 

[68ford]

the problem with propane is that when it is burned it doesnt put out the btu's. even if its in the perfect circumstance it will NEVER make as much power and it will be less efficient than gas while consuming more. 1 gallon of propane can never perform as much work as 1 gallon of gasoline. add that to the high price and you get why really nothing runs on propane as far as cars and trucks, it takes more propane to get the job done with less power at the same time. its cleaner so its great for forklifts inside.

 

[Scotty]

Well, since we're already so far off topic, and because I don't know anything about propane except how to cook on my grill, I thought I'd throw this in. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but...

The "How Stuff Works" article says, "Hydrogen is clean burning -- Unlike the burning of fossil fuels, hydrogen combustion does not produce any destructive environmental pollutants." That is a slightly misleading statement.

How is the Hydrogen produced? Typically, it is done through electrolysis. Electrolysis is the passing of electrical current through water to separate the hydrogen atom out of the water molecule. So, the question arises, "From where do you get the electricity?" The answer is: primarily from coal or natural gas, unless you're lucky enough to live in an area where the energy mix includes a large amount of hydro-electric power. So, to create this cleaner-burning and "energy independent" fuel, the current answer is to increase the combustion of other fossil fuels and/or the use of nuclear energy. To borrow terminology from other fields, hydrogen as an automotive fuel is currently a "micro" environmental solution rather than a "macro" solution.

On another note, has anyone looked at the effect of the weak dollar on our import price of gasoline? If the dollar was more valuable on the international market, it seems to reason that gasoline would cost each of us less at the pump.

 

[airman]

I've been a Bush advocate from the start, but he and his crew need to do something about this gas/diesel dilema.....Seriously.

They are doing something about it. Their jacking up the prices and him and his buddies are stuffing there pockets full of your hard earned cash.
Don't forget where this dude's family makes it's dough.
Bush is an oil man, his daddy was an oil man, his granddaddy was an oil man, his buddies the Saudi's that have billions of dollars in our banks, and gave big bucks to the W campaign are oil men. (where were those 911 scumbags from again? Saudi's. Right.)
The crokedness this guy possesses and puts right in front of our eys is so unbeliveable most people think it can't be true.


Off the rant, my dad had LPG in his old chevy pick up and it ran ok. It ran better on gas but was fine on the propane. We lived out in the country and had a huge propane tank that we used in the house so he would just fill the tank in his truck from that.

I know this is the wrong place but I can't let you throw that out uncontested.

A barrel of crude from OPEC is at an all time high right now. Do you think Bush has control of that? Or anyone else that you accuse of foul play? You put it all together by stating the history. The saudis have only been in the oil business since after WWII. I would agree people from SA were behind 911 but not because of Bush or his family or friends.

The reason our gas is so high is we have to buy oil from OPEC. The reason we have to buy oil from OPEC is because there is no place else to buy it. The reason there is no place else to buy it is that everytime we try to explore for new oil fields we get shut down by our own people. That enemy is within. OPEC rips us off because they can. The fact that people blame our own President for the high prices of foreign good only makes it easier for them to rip us off.

My dad had LP on a Blazer in the 70's and it sucked too.

Jeff in AZ

 

[CDHUNTER]

On subject. I used to run a dune buggy and bumped into a few guys running chevy 4.3 liters with propane on buggies. When I asked the inevitable why, they claimed it was because it was a pressurized system it would handle the hill climbs they normal participated in better than gasoline. They had some pictures and these guys were going straight up. Of course, they were also running 44 boggers with every other tread cut out in the back and 35 inchers in the front. Needless to say they had plenty of power.

Off subject. I was in japan about a year ago and had heard how expensive gas was abroad. Went to the gas station with my escort (work related for you dirty minded people) and noticed gas was 99 yen roughly 99 cents. I thought man thats cheap until I noticed the pump was going pretty fast. Try 99 cents per liter. Thats basically $4 per gallon and this was in 2003

 

[trailpsycho]

Just to throw some fuel into the fire. $250 billion would go a long way into researching new alternative fuels and technologies, but apparently its more important to secure our interests in overseas oil and to bolster the economy through defense funding and the weapons industry than trying to ease our impact on our world and environment through education, research and problem solving (without guns). I dont have THE answer, at least any other than speculative ones, but I am sure that $250 billion diverted into our own infrastructure and research would be more beneficial to our long term-economic growth and our long term energy problems rather than picking fights with our former friends who we put into power and set-up to fail. And yes, Bush and his cronies/family ...along with many of his financial supporters, but not necessarily the public, are making have made and will continue to bolster their power and fortunes and prosper due to the actions he took/is taking as president. Whether this is good for you, America or whoever, remains to be seen, but most certainly depends on which side of the aisle your on. Flame suit on...

 

[HotWheels]

This is the last post I'm going to make on this subject until we start a new thread in the Off-Tpic Forum:

I met Mr. Bush in person last year. No intelligence in his eyes or in his unscripted speech. I will endure his tenure as best I can. God help us all.

 

[BoltBuster]

Ive thought about it just need to look into it in how its done.

Ive heard things as high as $100 a barrel by the summer on talk radio shows. We need to start drilling in Africa and other areas of interest if petroleum is going to be our main stay resource for transportation

 

[trailpsycho]

Everyone needs to keep in mind that plastics, chemicals used for drug research/manufacturing, everything "organic" that is manufactured- practically- comes from petroleum or coal. We cannot keep up our consumption of resources at this pace and expect to have anything left in the ground anywhere in the next 50-75 yrs...how much do you love your children and grandchildren? I have no problem paying for gas, but I would love to have the option to put in a long-term powerplant in my Bronco that I know I will be able to afford to use in another 20 yrs. There has got to be some serious research into renewable fuels/resources to maintain our populations, our planet and our environment or we will be another dead planet, just like the rest of the universe.

But, man, I love my Bronco; no top, low 70s, its hard not to go NASCAR on all the commuters. AH, the truly American dilemma...draft 'em, bump 'em or use the median and roll on through...and just worry about the gas when the tank is empty. %)

 

[tabascom16]

I also heard oil might top out over $100 per barrel this summer, but then again, look at all the hypes about how gas prices will skyrocket every other summer. Oil priced just peaked last week I beleive so gas prices should be up even more in the next few weeks but will hopefully drop off. Now I'm wondering if a 408 was a really good idea for my main vehicle of transportation for the summer. I guess its the young mind at work.

 

[74bronc]

Everyone needs to keep in mind that plastics, chemicals used for drug research/manufacturing, everything "organic" that is manufactured- practically- comes from petroleum or coal. We cannot keep up our consumption of resources at this pace and expect to have anything left in the ground anywhere in the next 50-75 yrs...how much do you love your children and grandchildren? I have no problem paying for gas, but I would love to have the option to put in a long-term powerplant in my Bronco that I know I will be able to afford to use in another 20 yrs. There has got to be some serious research into renewable fuels/resources to maintain our populations, our planet and our environment or we will be another dead planet, just like the rest of the universe.

But, man, I love my Bronco; no top, low 70s, its hard not to go NASCAR on all the commuters. AH, the truly American dilemma...draft 'em, bump 'em or use the median and roll on through...and just worry about the gas when the tank is empty. %)

these crazy predictions of "running out of oil" have been around for a long time and if the "predictions" had been right last time around, we would have all be driving our broncos around fred flintstone style about 10 years ago. There is plenty of petroleum but the problem is the treehuggers have virtually stopped any and all exploration in the US. Why not use all the Middle Eastern oil first? makes sense to me. Maybe some day we can charge them $150/barrell for our oil from under ANWR when their wells go dry

 

[trailpsycho]

74Bronc- Maybe its just that you, W, and the rest of the Hollier-than-thou-rollers either believe that the second coming of Christ will occur before we run out of petroleum or as in W's case, he will bring the second coming on his own; however, I dont think that betting on Jesus showing up in our lifetime has very good odds, so I am going to be conservative--in the literal sense, not the political one--and say we should be cautious about our consumption. Keep in mind that we have only been tapping into petroleum-industrially-in a production/consumption sense- for the last 100-125 yrs. We have already made a significant dent. As the population grows, it only seems logical, since by the creationists' calculations the earth is only 10,000 years old that only a finite # of dinos, plant-life and other carbon-based lifeforms which now constitute the petroleum and natural gas that we plumb from beneath the ground could have ever been on the planet in that short a time-frame. Even if you go with the Evolutionist theory that the earth is ~5 billion years old...the earth only had carbon based life in the last 2.5-3 billion yrs and then it was mostly mono-cellular for another 1-1.5 billion yrs, so we are still talking about finite amounts of carbon that were trapped, contained in the right conditions to turn into the usable fuels we have today. Most of life probably went into a more extreme form of decay and were already recycled back into the environment...since matter can not be created or destroyed...you did get some science, right? So, NO there is not an infinite amount of dino-goo awaiting the petroleum industry...have you talked to anyone in the industry lately, they have to go further and further off-shore to find significant fields/reserves, which becomes more and more logistically difficult to bring to market. When some jackass can barely drive a pontoon, much less a 2 million barrel oil-tanker around, it becomes difficult to see how they will be able to maintain the demand. Keep in mind all the plastics, chemicals, etc that are consumed and discarded. It wont last forever. You can label conscientious people all you like--tree-huggers, earth-nazis, environementalists, hippies, whatever--thats your issue, you need to label people so that you can discount their opinions and elevate your own selfish ideas that benefit your politics/money making machine. People who are passionate about the environment (to preserve it as it was intended--au natural) and dont want oil-rigs on their coast-lines (I have worked off-shore; I know both how difficult it is to get the product to market and how "accidents" happen) or other forms of production in their backyards have legitimate concerns and are less-selfish than big-business, in that they want to preserve whats left for future generations, not the next quarterly/fiscal report. People who will benefit from industry will always make light of facts, others that oppose their goals, or alternative methods, because of the potential loss of income and financial wealth. Its a travesty what is being done in the name of freedom and human dignity that serves to only benefit the wealthy minority. Label me as you wish, I will continue to drive my Bronco. I will continue to feel the way I do and you will continue to be wrong. A big KMA to you my west-coast Bronco-Brother.

Back to propane. IF you have the money to build a propane specific setup, awesome. If you are going to retro-fit, you may not be happy with the results and from what research I have done; it will cost you more to run it.

 

[Sac '68 sport]

"A barrel of crude from OPEC is at an all time high right now. Do you think Bush has control of that? Or anyone else that you accuse of foul play? You put it all together by stating the history.... "

Yes, I think that he (not just Bush but every US President) has complete control over what OPEC charges the US for oil. That's why we pay so much less for it than every other place in the world. If someone starts getting rich off the US and the top dog isn't getting his due, guess what, that someone gets replaced with another someone that will play nice. Pretty much every region of the world has leaders that we either approved of and put in place, or at one time approved of and put in place sans China and the old USSR, but those countries are on the move.
And don't be too hard on the hippies and tree huggers. Sometimes they bug me too but with out radicals on each side we wouldn't have a middle ground and the whole country would be contaminated desert with crap and TP flowing though the streets. Or we'd all be sitting around in the forest stinking like BO and petrule picking bugs out of each others dreads.

My last post on this too. Back to broncos!!

 

[68ford]

i didnt read everything since i last posted but i read a bit. i under stand how the things that mr bush does bother people regarding oil, but if it was a demi in office it would be ALOT worse. if the demicrats had control the sierra club would influince them so much,we would all be using mas transit, have no personal cars and live in high rise appartments. kerry was almost going to be a mouthpeice for the sierra club, he was 100% endorsed by them.
as far as running out of oil, NO WAY alaska is a huge oil reserve(if you want to call it that,probably never use it),almost the size of iraq i beleive, but thanks to the demicrats, the same people who are closing places for us to take our rigs and want stricter smog pollicies(loosing all industrial jobs here), we cant drill in alaska because its a wilderness. i dont know its exact size,but its atleast a couple hundred thousand acres, and we cant drill in one corner when there are poor people who cant afford to drive to work. rich liberals dont care,the bus is foor those poor people right?
thank GOD kerry didnt get elected, and i hope for our country that the next guy is republican.

 

[jbeyer]

these crazy predictions of "running out of oil" have been around for a long time and if the "predictions" had been right last time around, we would have all be driving our broncos around fred flintstone style about 10 years ago. )

if if recall correctly the alarmists were saying we run out around 2030 or so. where did you get that number?