Thinking 1 tons, Narrow 8 lug rears and weld on c's?

[barrelroll]

I'm thinking about going with 1 tons for my '76 bronco and i've got a couple questions. I'd like to stay narrow, around stock width or maybe 2" wider then stock. Narrow rigs work well in the woods up here and my trailer doesn't fit full sizes even on rollers.

What do people do for a narrow 8 lug rear axle? I did see that 5x5.5 to 8 lug adapters exist but i'm not sure I want them. Anyone have a write up on narrowing a ffd60 rear? How big of a pain is it to do?

Also does anyone sell weld on c's for a 60 front? I've got an axle I can cut them off of but if there's a set that fits with no mods that would be nice.

I've done several axle swaps and builds but this is my first EB. Any things out of the ordinary about swapping tons into an EB?

 

[racebronco]

james duff sells axle wedges for $85.. http://www.jamesduff.com/eb/suspension_components.html

never narrowed an axle yet but I would guess the best way to narrow it would be to cut the long side so the short side shaft will fit it..??!!

where did U find those 5on5.5 to 8 lug adapters??

 

[Bronco Brian]

Screw the "C" buy some cage arm with the adapters for tube money well spent. To munch work to get the "C" ground out to fit the bigger tube. Plus you will be up gradeing at the same time. Just my .02

 

[XT700]

You can get new C's and 5.5 conversions from this website.

http://www.extremeaxlesales.com/

They are highly regarded on the Pirate 4X4 website. I am in the process of gathering the parts to do this same conversion. Have a 78 Ford with the Dana 60's for the axles and bought the Cage arms with weld on brackets during a recent mass buy. I plan on shortening both side front and rear. This will require custom length axles at all 4 corners. If you try to shorten just one side in the front you may run into clearance problems with the oil pan. There is a ton of information on the Pirate site about modifying 60's. Do a search there and on this site, also check out-

http://www.norcalbroncos.com/forum/index.php?

There are some build ups going on that will help, although I think most are staying full width. You can also buy new rear axle spindles to make narrowing the rear easier also. I've been researching this extensively since January and still have tons of questions. I hope to get everything together for next winter to have the axles ready to install next spring.

One other thought, if you have access to a machine that prints hundred dollar bills the project will move much faster.;D Sorry for the rambling reply but hope it helps.

 

[76Broncofromhell]

Why would you ever want to swap from a 9" rear to a Dana 60? 31 Splines vs. 30, 3 pinion bearings vs. 2...etc...

You are also going to have trouble with mounting the C's on post '79 Dana 60s as the short side tube is not large enough to allow mounting the C's.

 

[Bones]

Go fullwidth 8 lug with H1 rims.

Will require highsteer or 1/2" spacers though (to clear tie rod ends)

I'm ~82.5" wide outside tire to outside tire with wide boggers

 

[twotwentyswift]

Dana 60 vs. 9 inch.

Why replace a 9 inch with a Dana 60? Lots of reasons. First you have a much higher pinion gear. Second the 9 inch has to use 3 pinion bearings because they are positioned so close together and are so small. An extra bearing is required to minimize deflection of the pinion under load. A 31 spline axle is an upgrade for a 9 inch. A 35 spline axle is an upgrade for a Dana 60. The Dana 60 has a 9.75 inch ring gear. The 9 is well, a 9 inch. The stock 9 inch axle shaft ( a 28 spline) is 1.19 inches in diameter. The stock Dana 60's 30 spline is 1.31. The 9 inch pinion bearings are pre-loaded with a crush sleeve, which can collapse or loosen if bumped. Once the bearing loosen up the pinion can shift around and accelerate gear wear. The 9 inch is 46 pounds lighter than a Dana 60 for a reason. BEEF! While the 9 inch is a fine axle in many respects the Dana 60 is far stronger in all areas and the reason I swapped one in. Chrysler used them in their Hemi powered super cars for a reason.

 

[barrelroll]

I'm not 100% sure if i'm going to upgrade the 44/9" or swap in a 60 front and something in the rear, i'd consider keeping the 9". I could pick up a 60 front with 3.54's so they match my rear, narrow the 60 and put it in, then as funds allow re-gear the 60 and upgrade the 9" from 28 spline or 31 or 35 spline shafts. Either way this is going to be an expensive project. I think my trailer is 79" wide from rail to rail and I like being narrow in the woods.

The overall goal is to be locked front and rear, 4.88's, strength to hold up to 36's on the 44/9" or 38's with the 1 ton front. The whole idea came about after I popped a stock 260 shaft/ brand new u-joint the first time out in a spot I probaly shouldn't have broken.

 

[scsm76]

Why replace a 9 inch with a Dana 60? Lots of reasons. First you have a much higher pinion gear. Second the 9 inch has to use 3 pinion bearings because they are positioned so close together and are so small. An extra bearing is required to minimize deflection of the pinion under load. A 31 spline axle is an upgrade for a 9 inch. A 35 spline axle is an upgrade for a Dana 60. The Dana 60 has a 9.75 inch ring gear. The 9 is well, a 9 inch. The stock 9 inch axle shaft ( a 28 spline) is 1.19 inches in diameter. The stock Dana 60's 30 spline is 1.31. The 9 inch pinion bearings are pre-loaded with a crush sleeve, which can collapse or loosen if bumped. Once the bearing loosen up the pinion can shift around and accelerate gear wear. The 9 inch is 46 pounds lighter than a Dana 60 for a reason. BEEF! While the 9 inch is a fine axle in many respects the Dana 60 is far stronger in all areas and the reason I swapped one in. Chrysler used them in their Hemi powered super cars for a reason.

A 31 spline 9" is stock from the factory in full size trucks (cars and broncos were 28 spline) But if you are upgrading you can just as easily upgrade to 35 or 40 spline with the 9". With the D60 you loose significant ground clearance compared to the 9". The pinion in the D60 is only higher if you build a custom HP from front end parts. As for the deflection there is significantly less deflection in a 9". So the only real advantage I see to the D60 is you get 8 lug if you are trying to match a 8 lug front, you get a larger ring gear, and full floating axles.

 

[76Broncofromhell]

Why replace a 9 inch with a Dana 60? Lots of reasons. First you have a much higher pinion gear. Second the 9 inch has to use 3 pinion bearings because they are positioned so close together and are so small. An extra bearing is required to minimize deflection of the pinion under load. A 31 spline axle is an upgrade for a 9 inch. A 35 spline axle is an upgrade for a Dana 60. The Dana 60 has a 9.75 inch ring gear. The 9 is well, a 9 inch. The stock 9 inch axle shaft ( a 28 spline) is 1.19 inches in diameter. The stock Dana 60's 30 spline is 1.31. The 9 inch pinion bearings are pre-loaded with a crush sleeve, which can collapse or loosen if bumped. Once the bearing loosen up the pinion can shift around and accelerate gear wear. The 9 inch is 46 pounds lighter than a Dana 60 for a reason. BEEF! While the 9 inch is a fine axle in many respects the Dana 60 is far stronger in all areas and the reason I swapped one in. Chrysler used them in their Hemi powered super cars for a reason.

You should really read up on this more. 31 spline 9" Fords are slightly stronger in torsional force than a stock FF 30 spline Dana 60. That is the exact same shaft as a Dana 44 in case you were wondering. Second of all, I've never had an aftermarket gearset installed in a 9" without a solid spacer. Third, Dana 60 spindles need to be bored out in order to fit 35 spline axles which adds extra cost.

Before you bring in the full-float thing which is better able to carry a load, you do realize that this is an EB and probably won't ever see the find of weight those were designed to handle. This is by no means knocking the Dana 60 axle, just if you are going to "upgrade" the rear axle why not get something that's stronger than what you had. Go with something like a 10.25", 14 bolt or Dana 70.


Here check this site out:
http://performanceunlimited.com/illustrations/gears.html

 

[the1208]

Can i ask why you would go threw all the trouble of narroing a rear 60 for 6 inches 3 per side? I am very new to EB's [read my fist post drugs and a 69 bronco ] but not to swaping axles and 4 wheeling. It has been my feeling a little extra width is great for keeping the body away from some things. the other thing to consider is if your tring to do it on the cheap ther is still alot of full width dana 60 and 9 in's in the bone yards. I will not get into the 60 verse 9 in debate. But if money is not a big deal and the 9in wins you choice check a TRUE HIGH 9 I have a good friend running one of these and it is a very very nice piece and he has been beating the crap out of in is rig and has no proplems.And I am not talking about curries high 9.

 

[XT700]

I need to narrow mine so it will be street legal. Here in NH the tires can not stick out past the body/flares. Also a lot of the place we go offroad are narrow, mainly because all anyone has is Jeeps, a rig running full width even with huge backspacing would not be very useful around here.

 

[welndmn]

Get 1 ton's Your life will be better, chicks dig you more, your manhood grows!

Run them fullwidth, get some Hummer wheels and leave the stock back spacing, that puts you about 1-2 inches wider then stock.

I run a 60 and 9 inch (69 inchs wide and 67 inches wide) with 5 inches back spacing and 42's.
I am 83.5 inches outside tire to outside tire.
I was stupid wide (in the 90-93's) an changed easy with new wheels.

 

[XT700]

83.5 INCHES!!! I just measured my rig which has 35/12.50's on it with the stock axles at approx. 72 inches. No chance I could run on the street at more than 74 inches, NH has what is known as a DE tag short for defective equipment and with any width greater than that I would be able to start my own tag collection. I guess I never realized just how wide they were with full width axles, confirms the fact that I will have no choice but to narrow. Had planned on it but was hoping might not have to deal with the added expense and work.

 

[twotwentyswift]

Hey 76broncofromhell, too funny LMAO ! I won't try to confuse you with the facts. Clearly your mind is made up regardless of what the facts show. Yes the 9 inch as I said is a great axle in alot of ways and if you put enough money into it, it can be awesome. If you can get out of Cali come on out to one of our rock crawlilng championships (WEROC, UROC ... everybody rocks) sometime and see what the big boys run. (hint: it usually has a 60 in the name). Oh and by the way, I have a 9 inch big bearing housing for sale if anyones interested. The 60 was alot less money to build so I ended up not using it. It's hot tanked and ready to go. Fromhell, I'm guessing you don't follow the rock crawling championships, but an aquaintance of mine by the name of Dean Bulloch is one the more dominant drivers in the sport. We would love to have you along for a trail run. There are some really great trails outside of Cedar City you could try. And we'll even put money on who breaks an axle first. So drop your whiskey bottle and come on out. I guarantee It'll be fun. At least for us!

 

[twotwentyswift]

Now to respond to scsm76...
Yes 31 spline axles were available in some 9 inch (non Bronco) housings stock. Just as many Dana 60's came stock with 35 spline axles. And yes you can upgrade to massive axle shafts in the big 60 too. You stated that you "loose significant ground clearance" which is just plain laughable. If you check your facts the 9 inch from axle shaft centerline to it lowest point is 5.75" and with the Dana 60 it's 6.00" So...if a quarter of an inch is "significant" than you got me. Actually I ran a skidplate on my 9 inch to protect the sheetmetal housing and I shaved the bottom of my 60, so I actually gained better than half an inch. So I guess if 0.25 is "significant" than gaining 0.50 or better is REALLY significant! As far as the 9 inch having less deflection than a 60 is just plain wrong as is your statement regarding pinion height. A Dana 60 reverse cut is a full 3 and a half inches higher than a 9 inch and a stock standard rotation is 2 and 3/8" higher. I guess that would be really, really really, significant now wouldn't it. Nothing custom there, just stock axles. Four Wheeler magazine did one of the best articles I've ever seen comparing the various axles in the February 1999 issue. You ought to read it if you can get a copy at the library or someplace. Happy reading.

 

[Mark]

Hey 76broncofromhell, too funny LMAO ! I won't try to confuse you with the facts. Clearly your mind is made up regardless of what the facts show. Yes the 9 inch as I said is a great axle in alot of ways and if you put enough money into it, it can be awesome. If you can get out of Cali come on out to one of our rock crawlilng championships (WEROC, UROC ... everybody rocks) sometime and see what the big boys run. (hint: it usually has a 60 in the name). Oh and by the way, I have a 9 inch big bearing housing for sale if anyones interested. The 60 was alot less money to build so I ended up not using it. It's hot tanked and ready to go. Fromhell, I'm guessing you don't follow the rock crawling championships, but an aquaintance of mine by the name of Dean Bulloch is one the more dominant drivers in the sport. We would love to have you along for a trail run. There are some really great trails outside of Cedar City you could try. And we'll even put money on who breaks an axle first. So drop your whiskey bottle and come on out. I guarantee It'll be fun. At least for us!

Well, throw some facts my way. I must have logic.
What do the facts show?
The 9" has a more massive pinion gear. The 9" has a substantially thicker ring gear. These are facts. You say all the competition drivers run 60's - is that true? Let's here some data, names, rigs, reasons, % of the rigs running what - something other than opinion.
Did you take the time to read the Performance Unlimited link?
I'd like to hear you reasonably dispute the documentation in the link.
Just because you say and think that 60's are better does not make it truth, state why, and please spare us the "all the competition rigs run it so it must be so!" line.
Be objective.

 

[twotwentyswift]

Mark,
You're absolutely right. Those professional rock crawlers and rock racers don't have a clue. They're into doing repairs and spending money to replace broken parts because they think it's macho. Believe me, they really do have other reasons but you're obviously don't want to hear them. I've stated the facts earlier if you'd take the time to read them along with the source article. As I stated, the best article I've ever seen published was in the 1999 Four Wheeler magazine and written and compiled by Joe Nichols. It even has lots of pictures for you comparing the different ring gears, pinion gears, axle shafts etc. As far as your "massive" 9 inch pinion. Yes the gear is massive but the shaft is tiny in comparison. I own both so I guess I'm a little more objective. I'm glad you think the 9 inch is the pinultimate rear end because it's what you have. I simply stated the facts vs. some entertaining opinions. Dana 60's come stock with 35 spline axles and Detroit lockers in some trucks, which is alot of bang for the buck when you grab one in a wrecking yard. But it's your $.

 

[barrelroll]

I've yet to decide what i'm doing, I'm going to work on other things besides axles first. I do need to get the pile driving better so that will probably involve axle work, gota love building a rig on a budget. I'm thinking i'm going to keep the 9" no matter if I use a 60 or 44 front.

 

[ctowery]

The only reason I see for a 60 over a 9 is the full float hub. Nice and easy to change a broken axel for competitions when time's a running. The hubs and bearings also can carry more wt., not that its a problem for EB's or comp rigs

I much rather have 35 sp Hi9;D ...I do! If I brake a axel then yes more work but I don't plan on breaking one.

Cary