4 link, ORI's, narrowed D60w/only 2.5" lift, 5"+WB stretch, 2" floor lower, P/S....,

[ba123]

Again, while it is different, I've been messing with my warm-up enrichment settings a ton. Feel like I'm making progress, but there are so many variables.

In MS, the learn mode only changes the fuel, and I would expect it to be the same for you so make sure your IAC settings are correct before you do it or you'll end up resetting it like I did and also don't even bother trying to get warm up right until you can get it to idle warm exactly how you want it because you'll be changing things that will again change your WUE settings when you do.

And yet again, not sure if the same, but I'm having to find the exact rpm scale the engine want to warm up to to it doesn't hunt to keep steady and the most annoying thing about all this is that I can only start it totally cold once per day. I've tried after letting it get cold again and not the same.

Things that have helped me are to watch my fuel table during the warmup process and make sure the fuel level stays the same throughout. If it jumps around, you'll never get it right.

Log and try to see what's making it do what you don't like. If you can make the IAC hold steady and fuel is steady and it's still not smooth, then it's likely spark that's making it not smooth and it's adjusting to try to match your CL idle target.

Hope that helps!

 

[nvrstuk]

This does help Ben.

Once she's warm she idles fine.

First true cold start of the day and she sounds super fat for th first 20 sec while the O2 meter warms up.
Then she still sounds & looks fat on my 02 sensor (in dash) as I'm reading 12.7- 12.9 afr on my O2 meter in my dash (I've had mine compared 2 several different. 02 meters and they seem very, close)

I mean, this is a 60° cold. Start not a ten degree cold start like I will have in six months. Cocern is this rich when it's just idling, as i'm not even driving yet.

I am pretty sure I don't want to mess with it until I get back from the broncho safari in vernal utah.

Then I can make sure I have this tune saved as a reference tune and then try sending my log to someone to make sure i'm attempt to do this, right! lol

 

[ba123]

This does help Ben.

Once she's warm she idles fine.

First true cold start of the day and she sounds super fat for th first 20 sec while the O2 meter warms up.
Then she still sounds & looks fat on my 02 sensor (in dash).

I mean, this is a 60° cold. Start not a ten degree cold start like I will have in six months.

So when I'm reading 12.8 afr in the first 30 or 45 seconds, I know it way too fat for the temperature of the engine and for the fact that it's just idling, as i'm not even driving yet.

I am pretty sure I don't want to mess with it until I get back from the broncho safari in vernal utah.

Then I can make sure I have this tune saved as a reference tune and then try sending my log to someone to make sure i'm attempt to do this, right! lol

It has nothing to do with your O2 sensor needing to warm up.

You should be able to find a fuel setting called WUE, or Warm Up Enrichment. The idea is, you want your engine to start and warm up rich. The scale is up to you to change based on what makes your engine happy. Usually this ideally starts somewhere at 150% of normal fuel at a certain very cold temp. Here is mine as an example:

At 30°, I'm giving it 150% of the normal fuel--I've never had it at 30 degrees so it's a guess, but it's correct in the 50 degree and up range for me, my engine, my injectors and my air level with tps@ 0. I have it set to give the normal fuel at 160° (100 means 100% of the fuel table. A lower number would mean less).

You also might have to figure this out on a hot start. It's gonna want more fuel when you start hot as well.

Here is mine for that, as an example:

This one is enrichment, so the number is only the additional fuel and it is for starting the engine, so if cold, I'm gonna get that WUE number PLUS whatever shows here. And then you have after start taper, which is the rate at which this goes away. Most people have this go away very quickly, I have mine set for quite a bit longer than average but seems to work well for me. This is miliseconds:

On that note, I have mine start AUE MORE RICH than you have yours. Engine is happy starting there. It's under 12 when cold for about 10 seconds, then at 22 seconds when sfter start enrichment goes away I have it at 13.0, and gradually rising up to about 14.0.

Ignore your AFR when cold, just pay attention to what your engine seems to want (give some take some and note the response--try not to change too much at one time and back up your settings so you can go back and reset and start over to when it was better). AFR at idle might not be normal running afr. Your cam dictates what makes the engine happy at idle and you also might not get the most accurate reading at idle if your cam is allowing unburnt fuel by.

 

[nvrstuk]

Understand all the AFR and cold starts, and how much more fuel it takes when it is cold, rowdy cam dumping fuelnout the exhaust, etc, got all that.
Just how to set it with the holly. And what you posted will really help.

I appreciateit!!

Still not going to touch it until I get back from Utah, LOL

That and I'm working outside pretty much from sun up till sundown. So hopefully things will slow down in a week- Hold it. That's when I start packing for Utah LOL.

 

[nvrstuk]

I was looking at my O2 sensor (since it takes 20sec to heat & send a reading) because I haven't done a data log since I cut the Florida guy off & I haven't read one so I don't know what to look at yet.

After looking carefully at my afr guage I am now saying that I am lean, not fat when cold. My afr #'s are bouncing around 13.8 which is lean for cold. Another symptom is the last 3 (totally cold) starts when I put it in gear before 20sec is up it stalls and red lines at 17afr min. If I wait for about 30 seconds it will stumble and peg at 17afr but if I work the throttle it will keep running. Bit rough until about 120 deg, continues to smooth out and by 160 its ready to rock.

 

[nvrstuk]

I just saw this response of mine to BMC last year I think... what a joke Ford Performance is... So glad it's running well after I put it all together.... thought I'd repost this from last year on this thread...

"
8 mo story into 75 words or less???

13K miles on my 460. Piston slap. Not typical when it normally gets quieter when you get heat soak. This never gets quieter or goes away.

Past warranty so pulled it. Pistons were sloppy in the bores. Bore gauage showed them overbored at .0062!! Absolutely no taper in any bores. They were straight like they'd been bored that way. Checked Ford Performance (FP) website and they advertised .005-.0055" as their skirt to wall clearance.

So I went to Mahle's page (piston mnfr) and they showed my alloy piston recommended clearance as .0023" to max .003". That's when I called FP and asked WTH?

Then I called Mahle and we talked for half hour. They could not believe what FP was doing with their clearances. Engineer even said, "...are they trying a one size fits all" final bore? There are two pistons for this block. One for nitrous/boost and high detonation resistance which like typical race pistons and expand to fit the clearance (used to use nothing but these 30 yrs ago) and then my alloy piston which does not expand at all (well, less than .0003"). So FP overbored my block by over .003" (which is over 2X the specified amount by Mahle) and with short skirt stroker pistons you don't have much if any skirt on them so you get piston slap.

They asked to see my pistons/rods back in Nov and they stated they were to spec (I'd told them this at least 10 times in emails). Then some FP guy called me and I had a human on the phone (for the first & only time in 8months). He said they need to see the block (which I had asked for in several emails) and in Dec my block was somewhere in an FP warehouse.

NOTHING HAPPENED FOR MONTHS even tho I was emailing once/week. Late Feb now. They said they were sending the block back because I had not warmed it up properly prior to loading it. All kinds of typical "your fault" accusations in their email. Anyway, I gave them a hardnosed backgrd of my experience response that night and a week later no block. Sent another email and they said that the "Engine Engineer" wanted to remeasure it (don't think he ever looked at it before).

Still nothing-

I then sent emails all over US and Europe trying to get in touch with Mark Rushbrook head of ALL of Ford Global Performance. Got some positive feedback from authors and racetrack guys all over the world and then an email from a guy who gave me the email addy of a supervisor who was the supervisor of the guy who wasn't getting anything done for months.

Snails pace to now. Talked to two more Mahle engineers and they confirmed what I was saying and they both know the FP guys I was dealing with.

FP had custom pistons made by Mahle for the approximate bore of my block. I will have to finish hone the block to fit when I get them and FP says they expect them on May 28th. Then I will build it. I had a custom cam designed by Ed for it so that will be fun.

I wouldn't accept pistons until they sonic bored the block to make sure it is usable. FP racing blocks can't be bored out as far as Dart blocks. I'll post all this stuff on my build post as this isn't the place for it.

There's a ton more but...

Was this 75 words or ???"

Not sure why I felt the need to post this other than it was such a gut wrenching year for working on my Bronco... knowing I was right and some multibillion dollar corp was trying to screw the little guy... me. Oh well, have a GREAT DAY everyone!

 

[ssray]

So, on a positive note (hopefully) what did you think of Vernal. Fun place to wheel?

 

[nvrstuk]

So, on a positive note (hopefully) what did you think of Vernal. Fun place to wheel?

Pm'd ya

 

[nvrstuk]

Tire noise comparison test- Well, I was in such a hurry at 7:45am trying to get tires swapped out due to schedules later this week for the next two weeks that ... drum roll... I FORGOT to take the db noise reading of the MTR's before I took them off. My buddy on his Bronco has the same tires but 5x5 1/2 pattern and I can't swap them on... What a brain dead move! lol

However, I did drive on them tonight and instantly, I mean instantly noticed that on the same corners that I take at least 2-4X/day that there is not as much body/vehicle lean around the corner. I mean INSTANTLY noticed the difference. Same on the way home. Been on this same corner with my Bronco since 1977 so I pretty much have it down.

These Mickey Thompson's do not "roll under" like the GY MTR's do. These are the only 40" tires I can compare them too and yes, I had 37" GY MTR's also.

The cornering is noticeably different at (of course) the same air pressure. I don't notice any difference in noise between the two. Maybe there is a couple db but nothing you would notice from one trip to the next going to town.

Update after a month of driving on them. They ae louder than the GY MTR's. Not a lot but you can hear those larger lugs on the outside compared to the GY.

Sorry guys!

 

[ntsqd]

I'll be interested to hear if they crawl well as it sounds like they have a much stiffer sidewall.

 

[nvrstuk]

Every tire is different for sure!

These are "C" load and I haven't aired them down to 4psi yet to look at flex, only 10 miles on them so far but "my corner" is an 80deg turn with 50 mph speed limit and full of deer and I can't wait to put them up to a few tests.


What is very interesting is I ran them up to 75mph & no vibration, no strg wheel vibration, nothing- they aren't balanced yet.

I really need to pull some timing on my tune as the 100 deg heat has caused my top end to talk!

 

[ntsqd]

I can see it now, you'll be like an acquaintance who used to wheel his Sami on Thornbirds with no valve cores in the stems at all.....

 

[Yeller]

I’ve found Mickey Thompson’s to balance well, for some reason better than cooper and Good Year and they are made by the same folks. I can honestly say the smoothest 37”+ tire I’ve run is Maxxis.

 

[ssray]

"my corner" is an 80 deg turn with 50 mph speed limit and full of deer and I can't wait to put them up to a few tests.

I hope you're referring to the tires and not the deer!

Do you have a place that will dynamic balance with beadlock or do you just static balance them?
.
Engine talking...wonder if there's a a way to trim using IAT? Need more ethanol in the mix otherwise.

Scott

 

[nvrstuk]

Corner is full of deer! Damn pests. Farmland is being sold, 1-20 acre lots being bought up by people that want nothing to do with farming just don't want to live in the big city anymore and so the Coyote population is near zero the past 10 yrs.

Coyotes love fawns and so we have been over run by deer the past 10 yrs or so.since their mortality is near zero- except for cars & cougars!



Spin balance is all I ever have done since I usually have good luck for our 75mph desert cruises.

Engine- I have no idea but need to figure it out!! I ordered Boostane as I've used it b4 and know a couple high hp guys with great success with it.

I worked all the #'s (I love math) and it works out cheaper than buying 92 premium and having to bump Octane to 94.

Will buy me time till either I learn or I can have someone help tweak it.

2 things need tweaking-
-Cold start fuel ratio

-Pull 2 degrees of timing

 

[nvrstuk]

OK, lot's happened since new tires last week.

I did some tweaking on cool temp start ups which needed more fuel and that helped.

I did some tweaking on pulling some timing when ambient air temps are higher. I need to pull some timing across the board also. I asked for max 32 deg and it looks like I have closer to 40 deg so I need to pull some.

I went for a short drive up the road ... and then this happened... https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/whoaa-noise-loud.324706/
and at the end I heard a VERY load clicking noise, you'll hear it in the video... loud, I mean louder than loud.

Limped it back home at 700rpm in 4th and coasted some also. You will hear in the short video at the start there isn't any clicking noise THEN it starts up again.

With that I figured it was lifter issues, possibly several since it was so loud.

Ripped it apart this am. I pulled the valve covers and had one lifter than had about .100" or more play. Started it up to make sure there was a TON of oil so it wasn't a lack of oil so I looked at the lifter thinking it had collapsed.

Well, see what actually happened. Great news right?

Cam lobe is wiped.

Guess I get to try to find a new cam. I spent almost 5 hours calling all over the US today for a cam that will feed my engine. 8-12 weeks for a custom cam except ISKY can grind one in 2 weeks and it should be here to give me 2 days to install, tune, break it in, load it on the new truck and go play in the sand.

Hope it all plays out.

 

[ntsqd]

I can think of several don't say them in front of children words. Can say them here if you'd like.

 

[frdboy]

Oh man that sucks!

 

[nvrstuk]

Well, the cam's out and it takes 4x longer with EFI then it used to with a carb. lol

Anyway, the rest of that cam doesn't look very good either. WTH is going on with QC on parts.

Isky offered me a good deal on their roller lifters that have: 1- needles but Torrington needles and they are designed to hold oil for 1 1/2yrs compared to what I usually use where you can see the end of the needles and therefore the oil just runs out OR 2- their bushing style which uses no needles in the roller.

Both require appr 500# open pressure and I am not sure if I want to pull my headers, heads and try to get them to a machine shop and back in one day (closest one is 1 1/2hrs away and I doubt a shop would squeeze them in since everyone is backed up for months!) and have them shim or replace my springs. I am out of time but really don't want to be doing this again in 1-6 yrs... and miss the last Bronco event we were going to.

I ordered a cam today. Bit the bullet for extra fast shipping so we can hopefully hit the RdUp

 

[EB70]

I hope you get it fixed. I need someone to pull me out at RdUp. You can do it...